Curse

Luminarus · Nov 06, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Lol Bunny, you must get along with amy... coz ur post has more bs then any of hers (and u said it in a nice three lines).

Seriously though, coming out with a statement like that is what amy is doing all along. If ur right (and I strongly believe you arent) post a build to compare with the R/P we are discussing so that it can be tested.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 06, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Moonlit, when you are out of ideas attack the age/maturiy, GJ.

What? I suggest you make like Dewey Cox and walk hard.

My comments were directed at everyone in this cesspool-like failure of a discussion. Personally, I think it has gone far past the point where it needs to be locked. I just hope I've derailed this enough that it doesn't go back to whatever it was before.

Super Igor · Nov 07, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Personally, I think it has gone far past the point where it needs to be locked. I just hope I've derailed this enough that it doesn't go back to whatever it was before.

You think wrong dude and I suggest that you stop being a shitter,

*zap!*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

This message is hidden because Moonlit Azure is on your ignore list.

have a nice day.

I suggest everyone else do the same.

So back to topic R/P is far superior to BHA in PvE,

peace.

Snow Bunny · Nov 07, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

I have more PvE experience than all of you, not too mention that I've done it better.

When it comes to HM, you need to consider something.

If facing lots of melee, a splinter barrage ranger will work the best, considering melee likes to converge on a single target.

If facing powerful monks/rits/eles, BHA works the best, and I will explain why. Even a heavily protted target needs to get close to spearswipe something.

A BHA ranger can quickly daze a powerful boss before anything goes awry. Not too mention the fact that savage shot, dshot, and apply poison are all essential for dealing with monks, especially though with condition removal.

Having played every class in PvE aside from a mesmer extensively, I and anyone with half a brain can attest to the fact that a human R/Me ranger will outperform a human R/P spearchucker every time, and will contribute more.

What, you're going to tank in a spear chucker to take out the HM SF boss? Good luck, his pressure alone will RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you. Oh, you're going to try to rush in for the daze? He'll wipe you before you try. The BHA will from a distance do the necessary job.

As for making blanket statements, I will again state I am much better at PvE than any of you. And Igor, you're infamous on PvX for your careless and mindless statements, so I am not in the least bit surprised you've brought them here as well.

Luminarus · Nov 07, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I have more PvE experience than all of you, not too mention that I've done it better.

When it comes to HM, you need to consider something.

If facing lots of melee, a splinter barrage ranger will work the best, considering melee likes to converge on a single target.

If facing powerful monks/rits/eles, BHA works the best, and I will explain why. Even a heavily protted target needs to get close to spearswipe something.

A BHA ranger can quickly daze a powerful boss before anything goes awry. Not too mention the fact that savage shot, dshot, and apply poison are all essential for dealing with monks, especially though with condition removal.

Having played every class in PvE aside from a mesmer extensively, I and anyone with half a brain can attest to the fact that a human R/Me ranger will outperform a human R/P spearchucker every time, and will contribute more.

What, you're going to tank in a spear chucker to take out the HM SF boss? Good luck, his pressure alone will RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you. Oh, you're going to try to rush in for the daze? He'll wipe you before you try. The BHA will from a distance do the necessary job.

As for making blanket statements, I will again state I am much better at PvE than any of you. And Igor, you're infamous on PvX for your careless and mindless statements, so I am not in the least bit surprised you've brought them here as well.

Ur stupid...
1) Where on earth did spear swipe come into this?
2) I said that in some areas BHA was better (eg the SF example you mentioned), however in for general use the spear chucker is better.
3) Why are you wasting ur elite for splinter barrage when volley works fine (and offchar is even better).
4) If in a heavy melee area, since they are mobbed EDA/Volley is better.
5) Bring an offchar splinter anywayz.
6) BHA has less damage then R/P spear.
7) Since casters apparently dont mob up like melee do, then why bother with R/Me since obviously epidemic wont do anything?

Oh and about the SF boss, hes easy. Just do the smart thing and dont stand next to each other. Prot one person to aggro him. Flag heroes apart. If ur with hero hench, flag heroes apart and henchies further back. Force prot onto urself and take the aggro. Hes an ele. Eles do jack shit against prot spirited targets. The other option is have a minion army, and charge in + pain inverter. Either way hes dead. If ur so experienced at pve you would know this, but ur big head obviously ruined ur brain.

Super Igor · Nov 07, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I have more PvE experience than all of you, not too mention that I've done it better.

Prove it, I never played with you neither I have seen anything apart from pretending to be lolbetter than anyone. Just telling everyone that you are better is a rocky start, prove it first.

Quote:

What, you're going to tank in a spear chucker to take out the HM SF boss? Good luck, his pressure alone will RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you. Oh, you're going to try to rush in for the daze? He'll wipe you before you try. The BHA will from a distance do the necessary job.
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R/P doesnt take much to daze, simply throw spear of fury and stunning is charged, or get to the boss in 20sec. that isnt hard to do either, and how did he wipe you with your amazing skill? Dont you need to prot some guys before going against an SF boss? Also [email protected] xD

For your notice stunning is ranged aswell but cant miss as easily.

Aldric · Nov 07, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I have more PvE experience than all of you, not too mention that I've done it better.

When it comes to HM, you need to consider something.

If facing lots of melee, a splinter barrage ranger will work the best, considering melee likes to converge on a single target.

Splinter barrage will not work best when facing lots of melee. EDA/Volley with Hero Splintering is much more preferable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If facing powerful monks/rits/eles, BHA works the best, and I will explain why. Even a heavily protted target needs to get close to spearswipe something.

A BHA ranger can quickly daze a powerful boss before anything goes awry. Not too mention the fact that savage shot, dshot, and apply poison are all essential for dealing with monks, especially though with condition removal.

Apply poison is something i never bother with when BHA'ing and I certainly would not say its an essential skill for killing monks. I dont think it has any benefit in HM , especially if your /me Epidemic in which case I would be running Volley with offchar Splinter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Having played every class in PvE aside from a mesmer extensively, I and anyone with half a brain can attest to the fact that a human R/Me ranger will outperform a human R/P spearchucker every time, and will contribute more.

I've done some areas where i find Daze is needed less often . In circumstances like this a R/P damage build with daze capability could be more useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

What, you're going to tank in a spear chucker to take out the HM SF boss? Good luck, his pressure alone will RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you. Oh, you're going to try to rush in for the daze? He'll wipe you before you try. The BHA will from a distance do the necessary job.

As for making blanket statements, I will again state I am much better at PvE than any of you. And Igor, you're infamous on PvX for your careless and mindless statements, so I am not in the least bit surprised you've brought them here as well.

As was previously stated , R/P and BHA are both good build and can both exceed the other dependant on where you are playing. For a SF HM Boss I would definitely run BHA/PI but there are many areas where the R/Ps damage would be more useful more often. I will probably still run BHA 2/3 of the time but changing builds is gud or so i herd!

The discussion was R/P Stunning btw, not R/P Spear Swipe. But hey, at least you're still elitesuperawesomesauce.

Shasgaliel · Nov 07, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I have more PvE experience than all of you, not too mention that I've done it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

As for making blanket statements, I will again state I am much better at PvE than any of you.

This thread is getting better and better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

My comments were directed at everyone in this cesspool-like failure of a discussion. Personally, I think it has gone far past the point where it needs to be locked. I just hope I've derailed this enough that it doesn't go back to whatever it was before.
[/FONT][/FONT]

I think mods have too much fun reading it to close it.

Anyway back on topic. I have a question related to the discussion. In the NOX quest: can the BHA hero be replaced by with same success with a spearchucker? Actually is the spear build working on heroes as well as it works on players? I have to say that NOX was so far the only place in the game I used BHA so much. I tried spearchucker but only on player.

Super Igor · Nov 07, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Anyway back on topic. I have a question related to the discussion. In the NOX quest: can the BHA hero be replaced by with same success with a spearchucker? Actually is the spear build working on heroes as well as it works on players? I have to say that NOX was so far the only place in the game I used BHA so much. I tried spearchucker but only on player.

Im afraid bha is better on a hero for dazing because they cannot take NRA and NRA is what makes stunning strike r/p so good.

If you still want a hero with stunning strike try this:

[build prof=w/p box spear=12 strength=14][barbed spear][stunning strike][blazing spear][merciless spear][flail][for great justice!][enraging charge][optional][/build]
Does a pretty good job dazing, nice surviveability aswell.

Orange Milk · Nov 07, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

For those of you that don't know:

The Artic Marauders[TAM] were once in the Scars Meadows[SMS] alliance and the two guilds together were very well know for their PvE abilities in the elite parts of the game. MANY memebers of both guilds have accounts here on Guru and are very well respected both here on Guru as well as in game for their contributions.

If you've never heard of them, then you haven't been around long, and if you haven't been around long then obviously Snow Bunny would have more experience then you.

[Enduring Harmony] Goes well in that empty slot Stupid Igor Posted, though Heros are bad with Stances and you'l have to micro those, aswell as the FGJ + Eh combo. THough that build is better on a human if you drop Blazing for ["Save Yourselves"] because you can keep it almost constantly

Aldric · Nov 07, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

For those of you that don't know:

The Artic Marauders[TAM] were once in the Scars Meadows[SMS] alliance and the two guilds together were very well know for their PvE abilities in the elite parts of the game. MANY memebers of both guilds have accounts here on Guru and are very well respected both here on Guru as well as in game for their contributions.

I know this however it does not make them infallable and to use his/her awesomeness as proof of his/her statement that BHA is all you ever need was rather silly

Super Igor · Nov 07, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

[Enduring Harmony] Goes well in that empty slot Stupid Igor Posted, though Heros are bad with Stances and you'l have to micro those, aswell as the FGJ + Eh combo. THough that build is better on a human if you drop Blazing for ["Save Yourselves"] because you can keep it almost constantly

Heroes dont use enduring harmony very well so its better not to waste a slot for it unless you want to micro, as for stances its fine, they will cast both ec and fgj just before entering battle making the combo work all the time.

Last thing, calling people names is bad espetially for a mature person but I will let you go this time.

Orange Milk · Nov 07, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk
though Heros are bad with Stances and you'l have to micro those, aswell as the FGJ + Eh combo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor
Heroes dont use enduring harmony very well so its better not to waste a slot for it unless you want to micro

Reading comprehension FTW!!

Heors will cancel Flail to use ECharge, they will also use flail when ever it's charged like at the very end of a battle. So you have to move on to the next mob with your Hero lagging back because of slowed movement waiting for ECharge to recharge.

Quote:

espetially

I call em' like I see em"

Tyla · Nov 07, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

I disagree with a few of Snows' points here. Not because of BHA's strength, but because of the variations you can utilise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

[FONT=Tahoma]
If facing lots of melee, a splinter barrage ranger will work the best, considering melee likes to converge on a single target.

To add, it will also work with casters under a correct pull, although at times it can be hard.

Quote:

If facing powerful monks/rits/eles, BHA works the best, and I will explain why. Even a heavily protted target needs to get close to spearswipe something.

In terms of bosses, I agree completely. Having access to Technobabble, I already gain the ability to Epidemic / BHA the mob under one skill. The only time that it isn't generally effective is on bosses that give you trouble, such as the SF boss you've pointed out. I'm still pissed off about that one, Snow.

Quote:

A BHA ranger can quickly daze a powerful boss before anything goes awry. Not too mention the fact that savage shot, dshot, and apply poison are all essential for dealing with monks, especially though with condition removal.

Apply Poison isn't really the best thing to use. The only harmful condition removals I find in PvE when used in a mob with a caster boss is Mending Touch, Foul Feast, Restore Conditions, Purge Conditions and possibly Dismiss Condition depending on the amount of enemies. I never really look into what an enemy has, I just roll Discordway, C-Space and win when it comes to H/H. Although if you're talking R/Me, I would take Volley over Apply Poison simply for the reason it's evident you're using Epidemic in conjunction with BHA. Another reason is Poison Tip Signet, to a lesser extent covers BHA too. Volley allows an AoE-based interrupt depending mostly on luck anyway, however.

Quote:

Having played every class in PvE aside from a mesmer extensively, I and anyone with half a brain can attest to the fact that a human R/Me ranger will outperform a human R/P spearchucker every time, and will contribute more.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't bother with an R/P utilising Stunning Strike for the reason you've listed. BHA, or Technobabble is better at the job. Considering that EDex isn't nerfed for PvE, Sloth Hunters' Shot at 16, 17 or 18 spec is incredibly hot. R/P using Stunning Strike needs too much time to generate the adrenaline needed whereas on a BHA bar or a bar with Technobabble has it pretty much on demand.

However, if you're not using EDex and not got any dangerous bosses out there, I'd either run a Barrage Ranger or a Spearchucker, though Barrage in conjunction with Technobabble in areas without mad bosses and mass Monk / Ritualist mobs would seem a bit stronger compared.

Luminarus · Nov 07, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

If Snow Bunny is indicitive of what TAM has become to, I have one thing to say: I have just lost ALL respect for TAM. Regardless as to their collective experience, everything Snow Bunny said was either wrong, stupid, irrelevant to this discussion or both.

Do not just assume that because Snow is in a predominant guild means he is better. It could mean that, but that assumes that only people who are good at the game are in good guilds. What about people that would rather have a guild of people who are nice rather then elitist snobs who go "I have more pve experience then all of you", especially when he is pure and simply WRONG. Also how does being in an older guild mean he has more pve experience then us...? Just because his guild is more experienced doesnt mean he has anything on us.

On a hero, I agree that BHA is better, but we arent talking about on a hero. Oh and orange milk, if you read, that W/P was suggested as a hero for NOX, in which case he cant just swap it for a human with SY. Although I would agree microing w/ endurance is a good idea.

Snow Bunny · Nov 07, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Explain why spear swipe is better than BHA in a HM setting. Take into account heavy hitting ele boss, powerful aoe eles, HM monks/monk bosses, and shit like Willa the Unpleasant.

Go.

byteme! · Nov 07, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Did the topic change? Why are we talking about Spear swipe? Did I miss something?

MisterB · Nov 08, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Did the topic change? Why are we talking about Spear swipe? Did I miss something?

Thread has been derailed since post # 12, and has turned into a flame war about R/P with spear and/or pet applying daze versus BHA.

Luminarus · Nov 08, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Explain why spear swipe is better than BHA in a HM setting. Take into account heavy hitting ele boss, powerful aoe eles, HM monks/monk bosses, and shit like Willa the Unpleasant.

Go.

No offense but for someone with as much pve experience as you claim to have, ur talking completely wrong.

Spear Swipe is bad, more so on a ranger since its in leadership. We are talking about Stunning Strike. If this is what you meant, then... well mistakes happen to everyone.

Why is a R/P better at applying daze... lets see.
1) Everything dies pretty fast, so not having the 15 recharge on daze is pretty helpful.
2) Auto attacking at a greater rate, more then twice as fast as a bow under IAS (due to pet), and the spear itself is twice as fast as all bar short and flats when bows arent under IAS. This means that the solo interupts from that one character is more often.
3) BHA also has the miss clause (due to high arc), whilst the R/P will almost never miss due to kd, cripple, and the faster spear flight time.
4) The R/P has more single character damage output then the ranger, if ranger has volley, then this is different however the R/P is better when things dont mob up.

Against willa the unpleasant and other bosses that u are refering to how is the R/P better, How is it worse is my question. You have more chance of interupting her skills. Stunning is recharged every 10ish seconds, whilst BHA is longer. + The R/Ps better damage output is more likely to drop the boss.
KD works as a 2 second blackout, + damage. By the time they get up, stunning is usually charged. If you had adrenaline from a previous battle, they are already dazed and stunning is already charged again. Any adrenaline bonus's from team mates, or in some areas foes also help. Against kournans, stunning charges in 5 hits. You can keep the monks dazed even with the kournans removing cons with cautery.

Against 1 ele, as I said earlier R/P is better at dropping it. However, against multiple ele areas (eg area with lotsa SF djinn) BHA, D-Shot and PI are better because you can lock down three. But in most areas you atmost need to lock down two, and usually one is only for a short time because things drop so fast.

In general PvE, R/P is better. In select areas BHA is better.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

1) Everything dies pretty fast, so not having the 15 recharge on daze is pretty helpful.

You wouldn't normally take down the dazed target first and fast, since the daze (+attacks form your pet and you) is supposed to already take it out of the fight.

Recharging 10 adrenaline, is going to take a while, at least 10 hits (11.4 seconds with NRA) and longer when using other adrenal skills. Though shorter then the 15 seconds for BHA, the latter's daze lasts almost twice as long (16-17s), which makes it possible to keep a target dazed with ease. Stunning Strike's daze has a far shorter duration (8-9) on daze, making it harder to maintain daze.

Quote:

2) Auto attacking at a greater rate, more then twice as fast as a bow under IAS (due to pet)

Why would you compare a bow to spear plus pet? Under NRA's 25% IAS the spear plus pet combo attacks 1.5 times per second, bow plus pet attacks 1.39 times per second. That's an 8% difference, not 100%. Or maybe you also let a monk hero wand him, or your MM.

Quote:

BHA also has the miss clause (due to high arc), whilst the R/P will almost never miss due to kd, cripple, and the faster spear flight time.

Yes, BHA has a longer flight time then Stunning Spear, but you can cripple with a bow, and knockdown with PvE skills, just as well.

Quote:

The R/P has more single character damage output then the ranger,

Maybe, I've some doubts about that claim, ranger has some options to increase bow damage, but not spear damage.

Quote:

In general PvE, R/P is better. In select areas BHA is better.

Or the other way around. There's still no D-Shot for the spear, they can both make good use of daze and their damage is comparable (especially when both bring a pet).